SNP and Lib Dems clash over constitutional future of Northern Isles

They were talking about keeping the Shetlands and Orkney with direct rule from London, not independence for the islands.

It wouldn’t be in the Shetland or Orkney interests to let that happen.

The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, to which the UK is a signatory specifies that a state controls the continental shelf and associated mineral and fishing rights up to 200 nautical miles (230 miles or 370 km) off its shores.

When another state possesses an island within the continental shelf of this state, special rules apply. The continental shelf off the Atlantic coast is Scotland’s so Westminster wouldnt gain much by holding onto Shetland and Orkney.

When an island belonging to one state sits on the continental shelf of another state, the islands are treated as enclaves. These enclaves only have a 12 mile EEZ. If Shetland and Orkney remain with the rUK then they will be islands owned by the rUK state that are situated within the Scottish states waters. In other words they will be “Enclaves” and entitled to only a 12 mile EEZ (unless less due to equidistance rules). None of the Oil and Gas is within this Exclusive Economic Zone so will remain within the Scottish States EEZ as it is currently.

This matter was discussed in detail in a legal paper published by the European Journal of International Law: Prospective Anglo-Scottish Maritime Boundary Revisited

This would mean that if the Shetlands and Orkneys stayed with the UK, they would not have any access to the oil and yet they would need supported by the rUK.

Does anyone trust Westminster to offer that support when there is no access to oil?

Then there’s Law’s, policing, education and health – all of those would need to transfer to the English systems.

I honestly cant see why this guy thinks this would be a good idea!

Ian you are on thin ice mentioning the Football team, so beware, all other matters I agree!

Scotland alone look at its football team, greatest spirit on earth, achievements? Well!!!!!

PS, Ron, I do not care much for the England team either. Load of prima donnas and wimps. The British Lions and the Barbarians, now you’re talking. UK ladies football team Rock on. They actually play for the game and more than just the cash also much more atractive to watch, or is that me being sexist?

Scott Minto points out why The Shetland and Orkney Isles would be most unwise to demand a referendum after Scotland achieves Independence.

Would the populations of Shetland and Orkney cut their own throats and side with the English under the realities spelled out so succinctly in Scott’s contribution?,

I think it’s very unlikely.

I live in Orkney by the way.

I see absolutely no reason why Shetland and Orkney need to hobble themselves with either Westminster or Edinburgh. A Crown dependency allied to both must be the rational way forward. Dependant on the two for common needs but with our own interests and special needs put first. We are as, a population, wholly unique in culture to England, Scotland and Norway. Our needs are different and with intelligent and independent political leadership our future could be outstanding and extraordinary. It would just take a little political courage and vision, unfortunately Tavish to date has shown absolutely none!!! In the event of the breakup of the UK we must look to ourselves, not the political self-servers and exploiters down south. A plague on both their houses, self-serving idiots and buffoons.

Sandy, you are one of the most vociferous opponents of the wind farm and you support Soapy Salmond; (WHAT). This man would have Shetland littered with wind turbines because it is the only way he is likely to fulfill his dream of 100% green energy. He does not care who he has to stand on to fulfill this ambition.

Have you ever listened to him on First Ministers Questions he takes all the credit for anything good that comes Scotland’s way and blames Westminster for anything bad. That is why he has a pipe dream of staying in the pound so when an independent Scotland goes bust he can blame the Bank of England.

Sandy he is a con merchant and you sir have been taken in hook line and sinker.

Gordon, i forgot to mention the two numpties are David Cameron, and Nick Clegg although i would have thought you knew who i was meaning, or maybe not.
Sandy McMillan

Sandy. should everybody that disagrees with you get on the boat and head Sooth?

Typical Nationalist who can’t listen to any type of reasoned debate, blames everybody else for the woes of the country, takes credit when due to others and if you don’t agree with him well then you should pack your bags and find somewhere else to live.

You are probably right when you say Salmond’s your man “that will take Scotland and Shetland forward into a new wealthy era”. He just going to do it by turning Shetland into a giant wind farm and cashing in on all the renewable’s subsidies the UK government will have to pay for.

Sandy, assuming Scotland keeps the oil and gas found in Scottish waters, an independent Scotland would at today’s prices gain roughly as much in taxes as it would lose in subsidies. The future looks much rougher, this is a stormy economic world, and an independent Scotland would be small and vulnerable in a big bad world. It would depend on oil for some 18% of its gross domestic product, making it subject to shifts in global oil prices and at the mercy of OPEC.

Though high oil and gas prices have pushed up tax revenues, if they drop, production as well as income would plummet. North Sea production has been falling by about 6% a year for the past decade. Eventually the oil will run out entirely, then where will you and Salmond be. Scotland will be more vulnerable to other shocks.

In 2008 the British government (and its “millionairs”) had to bail out RBS and HBOS, Scotland’s two biggest banks. Could an independent Scotland have done this? I think not. Salmond has already selfishly rubbished suggestions that he should take a share of RBS’s £187 billion of toxic assets. At its peak, RBS’s balance sheet was 13 times Scottish gross domestic product. Edinburgh has stalled as a financial centre since, and will be near impossible to restart. There is a limit to how large a financial sector an independent Scotland, as a new, small economy could support.

A new independent Scotland’s borrowing costs would almost certainly be higher because of no triple A credit rating. Its financial market would be small and worth little in actual cash. But Scotland’s biggest problem could be its currency. Soapy’s enthusiasm for the euro has fallen away, he wants Scotland to stick with the pound. That would mean entering a monetary union with no say in interest rates, a set-up that has proved so very disastrous for countries like Greece.

One of Salmond’s biggest confidence tricks is to say that Scotland would enjoy automatic EU membership, European Commission lawyers are sceptical. Especially as Salmond has rejected the Euro

An independent Scotland would hope to lure businesses through low corporation taxes, aggressive merchandising and a heap of industrial policies. Scotland would struggle to attract enough to pay for such a generous state. Scotland would not be the only one bidding for footloose global investment. One main competitor would be Britain, and they are cutting corporation taxes swiftly.

Sandy your chip on your shoulder is impossible to price. But if you vote for independence you should do so in the knowledge that your country could end up as one of Europe’s vulnerable, marginal, and broke economies. Three hundred years ago, Edinburgh was named “Athens of the North”. It would be a shame if that name stuck again for less positive reasons.

The United Nations Charter enshrines the right of peoples to self-determination, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights also guarantees peoples’ right to change nationality; the UK is a signatory to both documents It is our constitutional right to be free of the dictatorial policies of the SNP. With the tenacity of the ZCC officials who stood up to the power of the oil companies we can go it alone. Sandy if you don’t like it you’re welcome to take a trip south on the north boat yourself, to be with your beloved leader.

Gordon, just wit is do aiming for, you speak highly of the ZCC, It was Mr Ian Clark that did the work to get the best deal for Shetland, and the remainder of the ZCC members reaped the pleasure, now the SIC cant get rid of out money fast enough, I believe the SIC have made a huge error with the gas Giants TOTAL,

TOTAL are laughing with all the gas out in the fields, if there was not a massive resourse of gas TOTAL would not be building a gas Terminal, Scotland and or Shetland has to get its independance from Westminster, or the same will happen with the gas as did the oil revenue,it is in a piggy bank down in Westminster, while Scotland struggles, the oil and gas is Scottish not English,
Scotland is being robbed of what is theres, 90% of the Oil/ Gas wells are in Scottish waters, Gordon pray tell me what does Scotland get from England I will tell you nothing, Independance cannot make us any worse of than we are, Scotlands is a Nation that aims for the heights, the SNP led by Alex Salmond is the only party with the stomach to Govern Scotland.
Sandy McMillan

J S Robertson, I am very glad to hear that you also are against the proposed Wind Farms on mainland Shetland, If Shetland does break away from the rest, who in your mind would be the best chappy to be in the hot seat, (what would he be called maybe, Govener,President, King, maybe a Queen who knows he may be a Dictator) I only support the SNP as they are the only Party with a policy to break away from Westminster, what Shetland desides is another story, but to attach Shetland to Westminster is not the way forward, we either go with the SNP, or go it alone.
Sandy McMillan

Weel Mr Robertson do gein on an roo de sheep, an il da wits rit fir Shetland, wid hit realy metter wider wir we Scotland or on wir ayn, as lang as we git awa fae yun eens ower da border, as lang as wir attached tae England, we ha nay hop o gitten on an makin Shetland a brighter an prosperous plice tae sta, Shetland his bein voted one o da happiest folk in da country, dats maybe cause we ken in twartre years weel ha wit we want, FREEDOM.
Sandy McMillan

How strange it is, that people in Scotand speak of Westminister as if it has some dark intentions towards Scotland. Lets be reminded that Scotland has MPs in Westminister, and they were elected their democratically by the populace of Scotland.

In national terms, Westminister does not represent any one country in the Union, its represents all of them constituency by constituency. and not by countries.

Other arguments I have seen seem to feel that the South East is little more than a conspiracy to grab the highest salaries at the expense of the Scots. The South East is affluent because it is the nearest part of the UK to Continental europe. No vote for indpendence can change that geographical fact, but I understand that currently 800,000 born in Scotland people currently live South of the border. They have illustrated that you have to move to where there are jobs available. Sitting back in Scotland and claiming its all a sinister plot is, to put it midly, codswallop

Another interesting point is the EU membership question. Scotland has not signed up to the EU in its own right, so therefore there is no automatic succession into the EU. However, even it it were accepted, the realisation on the Continent is that the approached the introduction of the Euro all wrong. It should have been mandatory and centrally controlled and that is what the central core of the Euro is hoping to achieve. They would almost certainly require a new member to join the Euro, at which point ‘bang goes independence’. Those who control the purse strings also control the country .

However, I do not suspect that Scotland would be faced with that problem. There are several separatist movements within EU countries. It would be unthinkable for Spain, for example, to give comfort to its own separatist factions and give them the impression that they could automatically join the EU if they were to be independent. In turn this would lead to the countries which have such internal problems to apply the veto to Scottish hope for entry.

This leads to another interesting state of affairs. With Scotland out and the rest of the UK in, then customs and excise would have to applied to the borders, and duty paid on what would be foreign goods coming in from Scotland. Its pretty easy to speculate, in the cirumstances that companies, manufacturing goods in Scotland, would then find it more economical to relocate their manufacturing processes South of the border.

I’m afraid that the SNP arguments are quite childlike and they tend to overlooked obstacles to independence and pretend they do not exist, and hope that the population at large will not notice them !