‘Nonsense’ over EU membership (Brian Nugent)
I have just been wondering about all this nonsense from Better Together about Scotland re-applying to join the EU.
Some simple facts for people to consider:
Scotland is at the moment part of the EU, and has been for 40 years.
We are fully intergrated into all EU departments and systems.
We meet all EU legal requirements.
Why would the EU want us to leave?
We have a major share of EU fishing grounds,and large part of EU oil reserves. Only a renegotiation of treaties are required to seperate Scotland from the rest of the UK, (the rest of the UK would also need to renegotiate their treaties).
The EU actually has no system by which it can expel an existing member.
Shetlanders should be looking to having the same status as the Åland Islands. With a yes vote Shetland can negotiate special status within their nation states and within the EU. A no vote means no advance for Shetland.
With a Yes vote, in Scotland’s accession treaty negotiations Shetland can get specific provision with other island groups to be at the top table during EU decision making.
Listen to Jean Didier Hache at http://mixlr.com/islands2014/showreel/islands2014-fri-20-sep-2014-morning-session-part-2-of-2/
I feel the scaremongerers are trying too hard to make a case out of nothing. Some sensible negotiations would sort all this out before our independence date in 2016.
Brian Nugent
Chair
Yes Shetland
Gordon Harmer
Are you sure it you that’s been wondering Brian or am I suffering from de-ja vu, you guys are so desperate you are copying each others letters word for word. So as well as no answers you have no original thoughts.
Brian Nugent
Cock up rather than conspiracy, Gordon.
Johnny sent the letter and asked about the Jean Didier Hache link, which is quite hard to find on internet, which I supplied and sent the letter back to him, inadvertently sending to Shetland Times as well, apologies all round.
Everybody should listen to Jean, http://mixlr.com/islands2014/showreel/islands2014-fri-20-sep-2014-morning-session-part-2-of-2/, very interesting on what can happen for island groups in Scotland in event of a Yes vote.
This opportunity to get Shetland a seat at the top table (a la Aaland islands) is only on offer after a Yes, and only until formal negotiations between an independent Scotland and the EU are complete.
There is no letter template writing going on that I am aware of, not on the Yes side anyway.
I would remind you that I am not a member of the SNP, but am more than happy to be involved in the multi party and non party Yes Shetland campaign.
Stage 1 is get out of the UK, Stage 2, and this is my personal position, is get out of the EU.
I do not have to be in favour of the EU to see that Scotland is a member of the EU, has been for 40 years, is fully integrated into all EU departments and systems, meeting all EU legal requirements.
If Ali and John are serious about an independent Shetland, then they should form a political party and stand in elections and find out what voters in Shetland think about the idea.
Project Fear is the name that Better Together used in their headquarters internally, the Yes side did not have to make up the name, Better Together used it, then the name leaked out.
Ali Inkster
Why is it only on offer after a yes vote could it not be pursued right now, and if not why not?
Would it include the same territorial limits (EEZ) as other independent states and would this include our natural resources? and if not why not?
There seems to be very little in the way of clarity from the yes brigade, As you know I am firmly of the opinion that we would be far far better aff clear o da lot o dem and there has been nothing said that would lead me to believe that we would be better off being run by a bunch of out of touch politicians in Edinburgh as opposed to the same from London. in fact with the lack of clarity and the leaked comments by the yes brigade it leads me to believe we would in fact be a lot worse off. Salmond has stated that Scotland will be the power house of the EU but he can only do that by covering the highlands and islands with wind turbines. And Edinburgh has shown it has no time for the opinions of the folk that will have to live with them.
Gordon Harmer
Brian, you sent it back to him with “Brian Nugent, Chair, Yes Shetland” as a sign off; and I came down with the last shower of pink elephants.
Just to make a point “The EU actually has no system by which it can expel an existing member” the UK holds the EU membership, if Scotland leaves the UK it leaves the EU, it is not being expelled.
John Tulloch
Brian, you said above:
“If Ali and John are serious about an independent Shetland, then they should form a political party and stand in elections and find out what voters in Shetland think about the idea.”
1. I’m serious about greater autonomy for a Shetland, with full independence as an alternative if the Scottish/UK authorities won’t play ball.
2. My holding a view and arguing for it doesn’t necessitate me “forming a political party” and/or standing in elections.
3. “Finding out what voters in Shetland think” won’t make my arguments right – or wrong – only logic may determine that.
Brian Nugent
Ali
if you are asking that question you have not listened to the audio at http://mixlr.com/islands2014/showreel/islands2014-fri-20-sep-2014-morning-session-part-2-of-2/, Brian
John Tulloch
“I feel the scaremongerers are trying too hard to make a case out of nothing. Some sensible negotiations would sort all this out before our independence date in 2016.”
Brian,
Are you saying that the negotiations which have taken place with the Scottish government during the only time in which the island councils will have any leverage haven’t been “sensible”?
You’re now offering something which the Scottish government isn’t and which you cannot deliver.
Why should we imagine future negotiations will be any more “sensible” once the result of the Scottish referendum is known?
John Tulloch
“We have a major share of EU fishing grounds,and large part of EU oil reserves.”
Really, Brian, why is that the case?
Is it because Scotland/UK has the lion’s share of both within the EU?
And do they have that, largely, by virtue of their controversial assertion of sovereignty over Shetland.
And is that why Norway has a fishing agreement with the EU, to gain access to Scottish (Shetland) fishing grounds in return for EU access to Norwegian grounds?
Then, would not the Scottish (Shetland) fishing industry do better outside the EU when Scotland (Shetland) and Norway could negotiate a much better deal with each other, excluding EU countries?
Gordon Harmer
Harry Potter, fiction fantasy containing a ministry of magic who’s function is to tell the wizards what to think do and say.
SNP independence campaign, fiction fantasy containing a ministry of wondering, who’s function is to tell the campaigners what to think say and do.
Bill Adams
What a pathetic mindless comment, totally bereft of any meaningful argument.
Just typical of the utter negativity of the No campaign.
Gordon Harmer
Totally relevant if you go read John Thomson’s letter posted on the same day. But you are not one to let facts get in the way of of a good insult. Your comment just adds to the irrelevance of claims that the Yes campaign is a grass roots campaign when it is pretty obvious that it is being run by big brother Salmond issuing letter templates to the faithful. Bill you should go ask Salmond for template letter of insults as yours are just water off a duck’s back.
John Tulloch
I’m reminded of a boy when I was at school who, having committed some misdemeanour in the maths class, was ordered to write a two hundred word essay on “why he should pay attention in class”.
Having run out of things to say after a hundred words, he simply wrote the whole thing again, so reaching his two hundred word target.
When his essay was demanded by the teacher at the next lesson he walked out to the teacher’s desk and handed it over, saying, “Please sir, I always say things twice…Please sir, I always say things twice.”
Matthew Simpson
This is exactly the same as this:
https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2014/07/13/no-vote-means-no-advance-john-thomson/
Ali Inkster
Brian du lives in Burra, a fishing community. Try finding wan fisherman dat relishes da prospect o biding in da EU. As part o da EU we may well hae da lions share o da fishing grounds but very few fishermen or boats left to fish it. And every time it is brought up it reminds us there is nothing Eck won’t bargain with to get his snout in da euro trough.
We don’t need a yes vote on September 18th, in fact a yes vote fae Shetland would give da political parasites in Edinburgh da excuse to prevaricate long enough dat we wid never see ony kind o meaningful autonomy until da oil is on da verge o running out an da fishing is cleaned out be da European fleet.
We may well meet all da legal requirements ta be a member o da EU, but seriously why wid we want to. Da council could not get dir books signed of for a few years because dae couldn’t separate dir spending fae da CT cheque book. Da EU can’t get dir books signed off because in da whole o da EU dae canna fin an accountant crooked enough an daft enough to sign of on da missing Hundreds of billions of pounds.
At least we know why Eck wants to get his feet under yun particular table. I’ll be damned if I will vote away what little Shetland his left to help him achieve dat dream. Even if da council are trippin ower demsels to dae juist dat, it does not mean it’s in Shetlands best interest.
Brian Smith
Joe’s contribution puzzles me. He objects to name-calling by Yes voters, but doesn’t utter a cheep when No voters do it. It is illogical.
joe johnson
Here we go again with the childish name calling from the yes campaign, “scaremongering”. Haven’t the Yes campaign got anything better to say apart from childish name calling? Grow up
Brian Smith
Brian Nugent’s letter contained an argument. If Joe has a counter-argument he should air it.
joe johnson
I would if there was no childish name calling. Of course there needs to be debate over the independence referendum as we need to know all the facts of how independence will affect us like pensions, economy etc. But what the yes campaign does is makes insults at people if they question independence like “scaremongering, project fear” and also what I find very insulting “unpatriotic” and “unscottish”.
Gordon Harmer
Its not Brian Nugent’s letter, unless by some freak of nature he and John Thomson have a telepathically conjoined brains. This letter is a contrived piece of rhetoric produced by Salmond / Yes brigade and I would be most surprised if Brian or John have the nerve to answer the many questions all ready asked of its content. What I would like to know is where they both copied and pasted it from.
Robert Fullerton
The yes campaign and those within our community who feel compelled to perpetuate the absurd lies and promises will be told ‘no thanks’ in September. No doubt they will bleat on about the negative campaigning from the better together camp when in fact they only have themselves to blame because of their lack of ability to back up their fantasy vision with clear facts. Frankly, by suggesting we trust them blindly and that everything will be alright if only we vote yes shows exactly what they think of us and I hold them in similar contempt.
Sandy McMillan
Who in there right mind wants to stay with Westminster, What have they done for Scotland, If it were not for Scotland holding the Trump cards, Westminster England would not survive for example, the best fishing grounds in and around the Shetland Isles, and the fishermen told to dump there catch, who thought up this idea of discards, the part of the catch that they dump is already dead, why dump lovely edible fish, Then the Oil rich waters around Scotland and Shetland, which Westminster reap the benefits’ from why does the money from the North Sea and the Atlantic Ocean around the West side of Shetland go to Westminster in the first instance, This is why Cameron and his cronies need Scotland, The only way to get our hands on the North sea, and Atlantic, is to give Scotland the big thumbs up and Vote YES in September.